25/02/2023, Yanditswe na Maurice Bazumvaryari
Muri iyi nyandiko umusomyi n’umukunzi w’ikinyamakuru Umunyamakuru.com, Bazumvaryari Maurice, agaruka ku ikiganiro ‘‘Ukuri k’ukuri”, Bombori bombori muri « Guverinoma y’igipindi » ya Padri Nahimana: Kwegura no kweguzwa! (kandaho ufungure igice cya 1 urebe n’icya 2 ucyumve ubyumve niba waracikanwe), umunyamakuru Tharcisse Semana aherutse kugirana n’umunyapolitiki J.Paul Ntagara no ku cyo yigeze kugirana na Philippe Mpayimana tariki ya 14/10/2022 yahaye umutwe ugira uti : Radio RTLM na FDU-Inkingi bipfana iki koko?! (kandaho ufungure ucyumve niba waracikanwe), maze mu mvugo y’ubuhanga, izimije kandi isiga, akibaza kandi akabaza atangara agira ati :
« Ubwoko mu moko, amoko mu dutsinda, Udutsinda mu matsinda, amatsinda-dutsiko, udutsiko mu dutiku, udutiku mu dutego, udutego mu mitego, imitego mu mayeri, amayeri mu manyanga, amanyanga mu macabiranya, amacabiranya mu maburakindi, amaburakindi mu marembera… ! »
Numvise ikiganiro cyawe na J.Paul Ntagara. Hari icyo nifuza kukivugaho nk’umuntu wagikurikiye kandi ukurikiranira bugufi ibya politiki n’abayikina bose (abari mu butegetsi bwa Kigali n’ababarizwa mu ruhuri rw’amashyaka abarizwa ishyanga, mu buhungiro).
Na none mu minsi ishize nakurikiye ikiganiro wagiranye na Philippe Mpayimana uri ku ibere ry’ishyaka FPR riyoboye igihugu. Nacyo ndifuza kuba nagira icyo nkivugaho muri iyi nyandiko yanjye nkoherereje ngo uyigeze ku bakunzi n’abasomyi b’ikinyamakuru Umunyamakuru.com cy’ishyirahamwe ryanyu ry’abanyamakuru b’abanyarwanda babarizwa mu buhungiro.
Muri macye dore ibintu bicye by’ingenzi numva byaba byiza kwibazwa ho, byashoboka bikanagarukwaho:
1. Hagati ya J.Paul Ntagara na Abdallah Akishuli, umutekamutwe ni nde?
Buri wese muri bo yazungurutse amashyaka, akananyuzamo abo bagiye umugambi wo gushinga no kuzana “agashya” agahita abakubita icenga akibira akubururukira ahandi. Aho bombi ntibabaye bya bihanga bibiri bidatekwa mu nkono imwe, na n’ubu bikaba bigicunganira ku jisho mu cyungo kimwe nta we ubererekera undi? Ariko Akishuli we ntacyo aratangaza, ubu uwo turiho twumva ni Ntagara wenyine. Byazaba byiza twumvise na “version” ya [uruhande rwa] Akishuli.
Ntagara yavuze ko kuva ishyaka ryashimutwa (uko yabyise), ababikoze bakoze itangazo, maze nawe bitinze aza gukora irindi. Ni itangazo rimwe kuri rimwe. Ntagara aremeza ko we n’abamwirukanye bakiri kumwe kandi we na Akishuli nta wasezerewe bose bakiribereye abayobozi? Aho ntihaba harimo NKONGWA cyangwa ibyo bakunze kwita “Imitwe”[Igipindi]? Ese niko bombi babyumva? Ese baba baheruka kuvugana ryari? Umwuka uri hagati yabo ni uwuhe? Aka kantu Ntagara yabaye nk’ugasimbuka ntiyakavugaho ngo anagatsindagire tukumve neza. Cyangwa bombi bacanye mu rihumye umwe [Ntagara] nyiramubande ye yumvikanira muri guverinoma twakwita guverinoma y’AMANYAMA N’AMAYOBERA, hanyuma nyiramubande y’undi [Akishuli] yo irangiirira mu KIRARO CY’ICYUKA bamwe batazira IKIRARO CY’AMASHARA, naho abandi bakacyita IKIRARO CY’IBIKENYERI.
N.B.: (a) Akandi kantu k’ikorosi Ntagara yakubisemo mu ntangiriro z’ikiganiro ni ukuvuga ko we atabonaga ko ABAHUTU NTA “RÉSEAU” bari bafite (déconnectés) mu bihe by’intsinzi no kwigarurira ubutegetsi kw’Inkotanyi z’amarere. Niba atajijisha akaba atarabibonaga koko, ubwo yaba yari afite ikibazo cy’imibonere cyangwa cy’imirebere. Akabazo: none se iyo ndwara yo kutabona ibyigaragaza cyangwa ibyigaragazaga yaba noneho yarayivuje ? Yayivuwe na nde? Hehe? Ryari?
(b) Ese Ntagara ko yavuze inzira yose, aho ntiyaba yasimbutse ko no muri “projet” y’URUNANA yari arimo, maze zikaza kubyara amahari ku munota wa nyuma? N’iyo byaba bitaritwaga Urunana, aho ntihaba harabayeho umushinga yari asangiye n’abandi bahoranye cyangwa birukananwe mu UBWATO BUTAGIRA “BOUSSOLE” [icyerekezo] bwa RNC? Ibi bintu ntiyahavuzeho kandi ni ibintu byafasha benshi kumva neza uko byagenze n’uko byagiye bigenda kugeza ubu. Habaye iki kugira ngo habeho URUNANA n’INKUNDURA, aho kubaho ikintu kimwe? Ntagara ubanza yarigeze kubiganiraho kuri radiyo IKAMBA, ariko icyo gihe ntawamubazaga ibibazo mu kiganiro. Iyo abigarukaho rero, byashoboka akanabitindaho, byari kuba ari byiza cyane.
(c) Ibyo kuvuga ngo PAUL KAGAME YARAPFUYE yabivuzeho aruma ahuha, adatomora, avuga “UMUNTU-GISHUSHANYO” (KAGAME-GISHUSHANYO) mu gifaransa yabyise “SOSIE”, ubundi agasa n’uvuga ko muri politiki “imitwe” yose yatuma arwana urugamba rwe ayemera. Nyine agasa n’uwemera ko ibyabo byo kuvuga ko Kagame yapfuye ari “imitwe”. Mbese yasaga n’ubuzabuza ngo iyo “sujet” [ngingo] ihite atayitanzeho igitecyerezo gihamye cy’uko we abyemera. Ngo avuge n’impamvu ibatera gukwiza inkuru bene izo niba bigaragaye ko ari imitwe. Ese ikibazo cya Padiri na Ntagara ni uko Kagame apfa cyangwa adapfa?
Niba yarabaye Ministri w’Intebe maze perezida wa guverinoma arimo igatangaza ibintu nawe akabitangaza (ko Kagame yafuye), ntiyigere asaba ko bicara nk’ishyaka ngo babifateho umwanzuro w’uko guverinoma yabo nka guverinoma ifata ibyo gupfa kwa Kagame bakwirakwiza, ubwo bivuze ko ari we ari perezida we, bose bakwirakwizaga impuha zishobora kuyobya benshi no gushyira abayoboke babo n’umuryango nyarwanda wose mu kaga. Bivuze ko iyo guverinoma bari bayoboye yari guverinoma y’akajagari idafite umurongo igenderaho. Nawe yageze aho yivugira ko uwo murongo yawushakishaga maze arinda asohokamo atarawubona.
(d) Muri macye icyo avuga ko yapfuye na Nahimana ni:
1°/ Ubutaripfana we atashakaga ariko Padiri akabukomeraho;
2°/Amoko HUTU na TUTSI : Ubututsi bwe bumutandukanya n’Ubuhutu bw’abandi, mu kigero nk’icya (réf.) MWENEDATA n’IKIRARO. Mwenedata mu gukubita urugi agasohoka ‘‘kibuno mpa amaguru’’ mu IKIRARO CY’AMASHARA yavuze ko we n’itsinda rye riyobowe na Ambasaderi Charlotte Mukankusi batumvaga kimwe n’abahutu bari bafatanyije ibya jenoside. Na Ntagara, ubu, nawe arimo kutubwira ngo we n’umufasha we Flore Karenzi ntibumvaga kimwe ubangamiwe n’ubutegetsi buriho hagati y’abahutu n’abatutsi. Ndetse nawe aremeza ko yanashwaniye ko bo batemera ko leta y’abahutu ariyo yatsembye abatutsi muri 1994, we akaba yari abikomeyeho (mu mpera z’ikiganiro).
Mbese dushatse twavuga tuti urwishe ya nka ruracyayirimo mu banyarwanda, ikibazo HUTU/TUTSI kiracyari impamvu y’amakimbirane n’ishwanyuka ry’ubumwe n’ubufatanye mu bantu. Bivuze ko kibangamiye n’Umubano mu bantu muri rusange.
Ntagara iyo avuga ko yagiye muri guverinoma ya politiki atabyumvikanaho n’abo bari bafatanyije ishyaka rya politiki, aho aremera ko yari abaye intandaro y’amakimbirane aho hombi ; none se ni gute umuntu ajya mu bintu bagenzi be babana mu ishyaka batemera, kandi ibyo agiyemo batemeranyaho ari ibintu bifite intumbero imwe – de même nature (politique) – n’ibyo babanamo mu ishyaka? Ubwo ni ukuvuga ko we atibonaga muri groupe. Ntawe ushobora kuba muri organisations idéologiques et politiques ebyiri zitumvikana kandi ziterekeza hamwe, kandi zombi akazibamo umuyobozi wo ku isonga! Uwo muntu aba ari ikirumirahabiri. Ntagara yahabaye ikirumurahabiri, niko byumvikana.
Akishuri nawe yari ku yindi pôle yo mu kiraro cy’icyuka, kandi we na Ntagara bakabeshya ko bose bakiri abayobozi b’Inkundura. Niyo mpamvu Akishuri nawe hari abamubonamo ikirumirahabiri.
Ni ukuvuga ko ‘‘ibirumirahabiri’’ bibiri byahuriye mu Nkundura.
None se ishyaka ryabo uwavuze ngo ni INKUNDURA y’abatekamutwe batajya imbizi, ubwo yamusubiza iki? Kandi ibyo byose bakabikora Akishuli afite radiyo ye yitwa “Kalisimbi” na Ntagara afite radiyo “Ikamba“. Hirya hakaba n’umuyoboro (chaîne) w’Ikiraro ndetse n’Isi-n’Ijuru.
Ibyo bituma abanyarwanda babibonamo akavuyo k’imitwe yitwaje amashyaka n’ibiraro na za guverinoma.
Ntagara na Mwenedata ko bagiye mu buryo busa nk’intobo kandi bakajyanwa n’impamvu zisa nk’intobo (zishingiye ku bwumvikane bucye hagati ya Tutsi na Hutu), umwe ava mu kiraro undi ava muri guverinoma yo mu buhungiro, bombi bakaba abarokotse jenoside yemewe na loni (bivuga ko hashobora kuba hariho izindi jenoside zitemewe na loni, urugero nk’iyemejwe na Papa i Kinshasa, etc.), uwakwibaza ko bagiye inama yaba yibeshye? Ni impurirane y’ibisa se? Iyo mpurirane (coïncidence) ko yaba itangaje bikabije? Baba baratobatobwe (manipulés) n’umuntu umwe se watumye bivumbura ku mpamvu zisa nk’intobo mu bihe bitandukanye no muri organisations zitandukanye buri wese yari abereye ku isonga?
MU KIGANIRO CYA KABILI
Ntagara yagize neza gusobanura iby’ama radiyo Ikamba n’Isi n’Ijuru, impamvu batagize radiyo imwe y’ishyaka. Numva ga ari ikibazo nari kuzamubaza.
Ubundi ko ntacyo avuga ku nkuru z’uko ngo NTAGARA na Padri NAHIMANA bapfuye MWEMAYIRE.
Birifuzwa ko abivuga ho, kuko mu mpamvu yatanze ntacyo yabikomojeho, mu gihe Mwemayire we yamuvuzeho ndetse agashimangira n’uko we avuga ko byagenze, mu kiganiro cye yise UMUCYO KU KURI GUKOMEJE KUGOREKWA NKANA.
Kuba yemeye ko muganira mwisanzuye byo ni ibintu njye nshima cyane.
Kugeza ubu Ntagara ntaravuga neza ikintu yapfuye na FPR mu by’ukuli, kugeza aho ahunga akanayizinukwa buhenu akanabitangaza ku karubanda. Habaye iki giteye ubwoba kimugeza ahongaho? Ko bari baranywanye akayirahiramo kabiri kose? Cyane ko muli 1994 na gatanu we atabonaga ko hari abantu badafite “réseau”. Byaje kugenda bute? Uko abivugaho kenshi umuntu yumva hari ikintu adatomoraho. Ntibyumvikana neza ibyo ari byo. Aho hakenewe ikiganiro cyihariye.
Iby’igishura byo ni umushinga w’agahomamunwa. None se iyo mpoho bagombaga kugura ni kalashinikovu [Kalachnikov] zingahe? Zo gukora iki se? Ngo ni ukwirinda harya? Gute? Nasobanure neza. Iby’amabanga abireke. Bateganyaga gutera Urwanda se?
Ku munota w’isaha imwe n’iminita 23, Ntagara aravuga ko mu kiganiro mwagiranye ari ubwa kabiri atunguwe n’ibyakorwaga na guverinoma yari ayoboye. Mhhhh! aha harimo akabazo. Gute se atari azi ibyaberaga mu mbere iwe muri guverinoma ye? Iyo mikorere bite? Izo ni excuses [urwitwazo] za nyirarureshwa, njye niko mbyumva. Bari babanye bate se kandi uwari MININFOR niba atakiri we ari umugore we?
None se guverinima itagira ihererekanya! Ubwo bite byayo? None se Ntagara niba agaya abo yasimbuye, we kumara imyaka ibiri akagenda nta “remise-reprise”[ihererekanyabubasha], ubwo arumva atari ibibazo?
Ese Ntagara niba yemera ko yari guverinoma y’akajagari, kuki yayimazemo imyaka ibiri?
Wabajije ikibazo cyiza niba bariya banyapolitiki bo ku maradiyo yo mu buhungiro bose atari nka ba “BAGABO B’IMITWE”.
Mu minota ya nyuma muravuga iby’abanyamakuru. None se nta bagendera bucye leta kandi bakora ubunyamakuru neza? Icyo ni ikibazo cya débat [cyo kugibwaho impaka] nacyo. Wowe na Ntagara aho numvise muhuriza mu kuvuga ko abanyamakuru ba diaspora bagomba kwemerwa (kwizerwa) birebewe mu ndorerwamo z’aho bahagaze cyangwa badahagaze muri za ‘‘Bombori Bombori’’ za politiki ziriho. None se niko byagombye kugenda obligatoirenent [byanze bikunze]?
Ntagara we yanakoresheje amagambo ngo: “…n’abo ngabo babacengeramo, …”. None se ubwo ayo magambo arakwiye. Ntimuganira ku mugaragaro se? Kutavuga rumwe ku ngingo iyi n’iyi se ntibyabaho? Nibyo gucengera Ntagara avuga se? Ibyo kuganiraho ndumva ari byinshi.
Iby’indaya ya politiki birashekeje ariko bifite icyo bishushanya. Ntagara yabihakanye ariko aranabyemeza ahubwo avuga ko ariko umunyapolitiki wese nyawe yagombye ngo kugenza: kujarajara kuzageza hehe ?!!!
Ntagara mu gusoza yavuze ko afite “urgences” ebyiri [ibyihutirwa bibiri]. Iya mbere yo gutekereza uburyo FPR yavaho. Iya kabiri yo gutekereza kuri “l’après FPR”[nyuma ya FPR].
Yavuze ko ari we n’itsinda rye atatanzeho amazina ariko yagize uko asobanura.
Njye mfite ikibazo nakwifuza kugira icyo mvugaho/mbazaho kuri izo ‘‘urgences’’ za Ntagara.
Ese Ntagara ko ari umututsi wacitse ku icumu rya jenoside yemewe na loni, amashyirahamwe Igicumbi na za Ibuka ayavugaho iki?
2. Philippe Mpayimana mu murya w’inanga y’igipindi…
Philippe Mpayimana ararya ku matunda anavuza inanga y’igipindi gisibanganga ubwoko… ?
Ikiganiro cya Mpayimana cyari cyiza, cyabaye mu mutuzo. Kandi byaradushimishije kumva umuntu uri muri leta y’Urwanda yemera kuvugira ku iradiyo inihirira ishyanga mu buhungiro.
Ariko mu magambo ye humvikanye mo igisa n’ukwigiza nkana. Yasaga n’ugaragaza ko ubwoko butabaho. Ese koko nta HUTU nta TUTSI mu Urwanda, rwaba urwo hambere rwaba n’urw’ubu? Yego uko zimye niko zitambirwa, ariko mu kiganiro cyo gusangira ubumenyi, ntabwo igipindi cya politiki cyagombye gusimbura ukuri kw’ibiriho cyangwa ukuri kw’amateka, ngo gisimbure imyemerere cyangwa imiterere y’abantu n’ibintu.
Amoko HUTU na TUTSI ariho, gusa nka “stratégie” y’imiyoborere, guverinoma y’Urwanda iyobowe na FPR-Inkotanyi yaje gusanga icyayigabanyiriza imvune n’imivumo y’amahanga na bamwe mu bahutu yarimbuye ari ukuvuga ko mu Rwanda amoko atabaho. Ariko uko guhitamo kwa politiki ntigukuraho UKURI kw’ibiriho kandi bigaragarira buri wese.
Aha umuntu akaba yakwibaza niba Mpayimana iyo avuga ngo uwabagaho atya yahindukaga umututsi cyangwa umuhutu atari igipindi? Umutwa we avuga ko yari umunyarwanda wabaga ari ku ruhe rugero rw’ubukire cyangwa se rw’ubukene? Mbega ibinyoma?
None se ko Ruhinankiko (musaza wa Kanjogera akaba na mukuru wa Kabare, kwa Rwakagara sogokuruza wa Kagame ka Rutagambwa) ko yaje gucibwa agacirwa mu bukene akajugunywa kure bamuziza ko yabasabye kugabanya ubugizi bwa nabi kuri rubanda, Mpayimana yatubwira niba Ruhibankiko wari usigaye utunzwe n’inzuzi n’ibisusa byo mu bihuru (atakinenya inka) yaraje kuba umuhutu ra? Reka, reka. Ruhinankiko n’abamukomokaho bose bamye ari abatutsi na n’ubu ni abatutsi b’indobanure, ni Abega b’Abakagara bacigatiye ingoma ya FPR. Kuki batabaye abahutu? None se umutware Kayondo ka Mbanzabigwi, undi mwega mukuru wo kwa Rwakagara, ko Rudahigwa yamuciye agasigara atunzwe n’injumbure mu Bugesera, kuki atahise aba umuhutu? Yari “Nyirarume” w’umwami Rudahigwa, akava inda imwe na sekuruza wa Kagame Polo. Izo ngero ntizereka Mpayimana ko apfa kuvuga ngo agabuze?
Umuntu yamubwira n’abahutu bari bakize kandi bakomeye batigeze baba abatutsi. None se kwa Mbonampeka ko bari aba “prince” bavugirwaga n’ingoma mu majyaruguru n’ibwami ibukuru bazwi, Mpayimana yatubwira ko bahindutse abatutsi ra? Ninde mututsi wabarushaga gukungahara uretse umwami w’Urwanda? N’ubu abo kwa Mbonampeka nta ngoma ibacika batayiriyeho. Bazirya zose, kandi bakiri abahutu. Mbonampeka niba ntibeshye (niba nibeshye ariko abasomyi bazanyunganire) ubanza akomoka kwa Nyamakwa wari umwami (roitelet) mu Bushiru.
Mpayimana niyifatire ku mufa w’indyoheshabirayi yo muri FPR areke kujijisha abanyarwanda. Nahembuke ave mu kuvuga ngo nta moko yahozeho mu Rwanda cyangwa ngo nta moko abaho.
